Tent Grow!

NUTTSO642 · June 25, 2021, 6:21pm

Thanks, none taken! Also, thanks for the book recommendation. I am def. putting too much into my watering lol.

So, I decided to roll with the TNB co2 canister. It claims to raise ppm by a possible 1200. I put this in my tent and watched my ppm rise by a little over 100 from the current reading as I was installing and thought only 100 more??? When I zipped up my tent, I watched the ppm drop fast down back to my normal 440.

What gives??? The frustration vibes are trying to attack. Must get through it…

Mpower11 · June 26, 2021, 1:36pm

When the lights are on the plants are using the Co2 so that can be 1 reason for the drop… If your exhausting you will never hold your ppm target

I feel there is only 2 ways to add Co2 correctly…

Co2 regulator on a 20lb tank my pick
Co2 Generator (but this makes heat also plus you have to hook up to Natural Gas)

Co2 is a waste of money unless you can control your environment 100%… Environment is more important also…

If should master environment first before Co2… You need to be able to control your VPD in the correct range all day without exhausting then your ready for Co2 until then I feel your wasting your money… I’m just being honest with you

Here is chart for VPD

NUTTSO642 · July 9, 2021, 3:25am

Hey Growers,

Since my last update, I’ve added Roots Organics Terp Tea Microbe Charge for the soil into the mix.
So my nutes and additives are the following:

Top Dress Terp Tea Grow (5 tsp), Bloom (1.5 tsp), Microbial Charge (5 tsp) in 5 ga pots
Silica (5 ml in 1 ga of water)
Recharge (1/2 tsp in 1 ga of water)

@Mpower11 In reviewing the VPD chart I am sitting at 1.06. Does that put me in a doable range? I am currently in week 6 of veg. So, after much more reading, I’ve learned I am giving my plants dead water in distilled that is sucking up nutrients from the soil instead of assisting it. Also, I was being lazy with the ph of my water.
In my rookie assessment, one of my plants is sick. With the following symptoms and I am thinking it’s nutrient lockout:

First thing’s first, I am correcting the ph of my water. I am also going to add some cal-mag to the water since I’m using distilled. Todays stats are the following:

Watered with a ph of 6.5, ec 0.8, ppm500=380, ppm700=530
Ice Cream Cake - soil ph 6.8 (after watering), runoff water ph 5.8, runoff water ec 3.7
Frosted Biscotti - soil ph 6.5 (after watering), runoff water ph 5.1, runoff water ec 5.2
Flap Jacks - soil ph 6.5 (after watering), runoff water ph 5.8, runoff water ec 3.8
Rainbow Belts - soil ph 6.3 (after watering), runoff water ph 5.1, runoff water ec 5.0

All 4 plants are getting the same feeding so I’m a little puzzled by the difference in ec of the runoff water with 2 of the plants coming in at 5.0+. Since I’m top dressing the nutes I guess I should expect different stats of the runoff but what is the range the runoff water should be at?
All feedback is welcomed!

Mpower11 · July 9, 2021, 12:56pm

Yes your in Range

You are correct I tried to tell you this already… Your in week 6 of Veg and see what I told you before

Look above was 25 days ago… R0 / Distilled leads to the same problem… Your plants now have Calcium Deficiency…

What are you using for

Cal / Mag and Silica?

All plants don’t feed at the same rate… Right now I have 1 plant that has some tip burn from nutes the others don’t… The plant just can’t handle it… This is totally normal…

Also how many times have you made tea / top dress so far? My question to you is why are you not using any worm castings? They are the king of soil… They work to breakdown on the nutes to make nutrient available to the plant… I recommend you look into this.

I also recommend you look into 2 products both are slow release so they will not fix your problem right away for Cal/mag

First Product is Oyster Shell Flour second one is dolomite lime… Both products will also help buffer the soil for stable PH… Note both products will raise the soil Ph which you need also… Kind of address’s 2 problems… Just don’t go crazy with it… To much is not good also… If applied I would 100% add worm casting in the mix because they will aid in breaking it down to make it available to the plant faster.

Merle_Carsten · July 9, 2021, 5:55pm

I can’t wait to go straight organic. I’m definitely going to get this stuff. I’m waiting for it to hit my store. It’s now in the USA… So it’s a go for me.

Mpower11 · July 9, 2021, 7:23pm

You will love it I think… Just follow 1 simply rule keep the soil alive and let the plant do the rest…

My Ph in my soil right now is 7.6 (checked it last night… Last time I checked / measured my Ph was something like 7 weeks ago… I only checked last night for fun and my plants are as happy as it gets but my soil is alive… That is the key

There is alot of good organic growing info posted in there if you want to take a look

Mpower11 · July 10, 2021, 3:55am

Question what are you adding to get such a high Ec. In my opinion to much

Merle_Carsten · July 11, 2021, 2:17pm

Very high

NUTTSO642 · July 12, 2021, 5:33am

I have ran into problems in the past using with RO water and not enough Cal/mag (ran into problem after about 6 weeks in Veg)… I now always add Cal/Mag to around 0.2 Ec or 80 ppm…

I figured the soil could supplement but, obviously wrong lol. Thanks for the link.

What are you using for Cal / Mag and Silica?

Roots Organics CALMAG is what I’m waiting to arrive. (The local hydro store didn’t have the brand I was looking for) & Bloom Silica

how many times have you made tea / top dress so far?

5 times now. Top dress only with roots organics terp tea grow & bloom and roots organics microbe charge

My question to you is why are you not using any worm castings? They are the king of soil… They work to breakdown on the nutes to make nutrient available to the plant… I recommend you look into this.

I did from our last chat. That led me to get the microbe charge as the ingredients are the following:

Earthworm Castings, Kelp Extract (Ascophyllum nodosum), Bat Guano, Alfalfa Meal, Soybean Meal, Fish Protein Hydrolysate, Dolomite, Gypsum, Crab Meal

Do you think I should also add pure worm castings?
Should I add shell flour and dolomite lime in addition to the cal mag that I’m going to introduce?

what are you adding to get such a high Ec. In my opinion to much

You’re referring to the runoff water reading correct?
If so nothing man, those high readings are tripping me out as well.

This is my feeding regiment in this order:

In 1 gallon of water:
Mix 5ml of Bloom Silica and mix then let it sit for an hour. Then add 1/2tsp of real growers recharge and mix.

In 5 gallon pots:
Top dress 5tsp of roots organic microbe charge 2-1-2 and mix

Top dress 5tsp of roots organics grow 7-1-1 and mix

Top dress 1.5tsp of roots organics bloom 3-7-4 and mix

Use above mixed water after top dressed.

The growth in all plants look good.

Mpower11 · July 12, 2021, 3:43pm

I only try to use products that are OMRI listed… Just make sure no synthetic are in these products or you will run into problems

This sounds like alot of top dress and Tea… I think your over doing it…

How big is your pot? Edited I see your in 5 gallons.

Yes but not right now… I think you have alot of feed in the soil

Can you but go easy don’t over do it… To much will make problems also

Do this for sure because it will be faster acting… Foliar spray is the fastest way… But need to be done 1 hour before lights on… Never Foliar feed with the lights on it will burn the plants

Your runoff is high also but I was referring to your Feed water at 0.8 EC… That seems high

So you add recharge to all your watering? Honestly sounds me to like just to much overall… Which is why your leach EC is high… Sounds like your feeding Tea or top dressing weekly if your in week 6… Am I correct?.. If so you need to chill on all the food…

NUTTSO642 · July 12, 2021, 5:43pm

No, recharge is added weekly. Yes, all food is added weekly. Haven’t made any tea, only top dress. Should I feed every 2 or 3 weeks then?

You’re suggesting using cal-mag as a foliar spray?

Really? That’s interesting, what should be my target? I read that EC during this stage should be between 0.5 - 1.3. My last feeding was last Sunday (not yesterday).

I went ahead and picked this up:

Mpower11 · July 12, 2021, 8:12pm

At min yes 2 to 3 weeks every week is a lot (I’m thinking more closer to 3 weeks) you have to go by the plant vs time tho…

You can just follow the Foliar rate or even less than the recommended rate.

I’m not sure we are talking about same thing… I’m talking about the water you mix to feed the plants… What are you adding to get that Ec so high… On my water days my plants get RO water with Cal/Mag to a EC 0.2… You said your feed water is 0.8 above I said why so high what are you adding to get that valve…

Also I don’t know how to example this 100% correctly but I’m going to try

We are feeding organically

Example of making a Tea…

If we make a compost tea with a cup of worm castings and some 2-8-4 and 0-13-1 and some blackstrap molasses, we would measure ppm in the 2000-5000 range.

This is fine as not all of the nutrients are available to the plant in this form. They must be broken down in the soil by microbes first. This is why measuring EC with organic isn’t the same I’m just differentiating between the way the available nutrients are measured in salt-based feed vs dry organics.

NUTTSO642 · July 12, 2021, 8:33pm

Nothing bro. That was just a water day and I used water from the hose in my garage. I only added ph down as the water by itself has a ph of 8.0. What do you suggest I use to bring the EC down?

Mpower11 · July 12, 2021, 8:55pm

Maybe your town water is high… Filtering water is the only way to remove EC from it

I use RO water to get my PPM start to 0 then I add my Cal/mag…

This maybe 1 more problem for you… Does your town water use Chlorine or Chloramine?? You need to find out

Chlorine and Chloramine will kill your living soil (kill all the bacteria and fungus) This is really bad…

Solution for Chlorine is bubble your water for 24 hours in a cool dark place with the lid of… It will gas off the Chlorine…

Chloramine I never had to deal with but you can get I think it’s like fish tank drops to remove it (not 100% sure)… Gas off doesn’t work…

If you want to stay organic growing this need to be address ASAP…

Also make some your PH down is organic not phosphoric acid (that will kill your soil also)

Every time you buy something you must confirm it’s organic that is why I told you make sure it’s OMRI Listed then you know it’s good…

I will repeat keep the soil alive you should be fine… Kill the soil and you will run into problems

Hope all this helps

NUTTSO642 · July 12, 2021, 10:55pm

From my cities latest water report:
Long Beach Water Department achieves primary
disinfection with free chlorine and utilizes chloramine as a
secondary disinfectant in the distribution system. We carefully
monitor the amount of disinfectant, adding the lowest
quantity of chloramine necessary to protect the safety of your
water throughout the distribution system. However, chlorine
and chloramine can react with naturally-occurring materials in
the water to form disinfection by- products (DBPs).

Atlas Scientific ph Up/Down products are organic.

All this is super helpful. Without your pointers, I’d be heading into these problems blindly. Very much appreciated! I gotta admit tho, going through these problems is upping my skills rather than just reading about them. It’s a pain but you all know the saying. No pain, no gain!

Mpower11 · July 12, 2021, 11:15pm

It’s ok we all have been there. I wasn’t going to say this but what the hell. I just hate being so negative honestly overall your plants are nice just I truly believe your trying to hard. More isn’t better and more doesn’t make this better. Now remember close to the beginning I told you I felt the feed the high N could be a problem. Well the more I read about your grow and I see the pictures I see different things also now. Not 100% sure picture is kind of far away. But looks like the start of Nitrogen toxicity also.

Looks for dark leaves. Curling and start of tip burn. Let me know your thoughts

Mpower11 · July 12, 2021, 11:22pm

You should improve your water source or synthetic is always an option also

Sounds like you like reading. Get this book it’s great. Best book that I know of for Organic’s. Just make sure it’s second edition

Choppo0816 · July 13, 2021, 1:37am

Well I’m glad I’m seeing all of this witch makes me think I should check the ph an ec from my house water cause if it’s out of whack I’m going to need to find a source for the water

Mpower11 · July 13, 2021, 12:39pm

@Choppo0816 Find out if your town water is Chlorine and Chloramine.

Chlorine is easy problem to address

Mpower11 · July 13, 2021, 5:02pm

Here is some info on the topic of water

Water Sources and Filtering Options

Both water sources and filtering of your water are very important considerations when TLO growing,
and a whole bunch of people already growing organically could likely get a huge boost in quality and
yields if they were aware of just how important this whole subject is. City tap or municipal water is
the biggest potential problem when growing with a living soil mix. Filtering this type of water is
actually fairly simple, and I will share my favorite sources for water filtration. My favorite brand for
this in the USA is called Pure Water Products. More about them and their filters later, but for now
suffice it to say that your water source is a huge deal when growing TLO or any organic style. If you
use well, spring, or tap/city water, then you really want to filter it for a number of reasons

City, well, and spring water all have some potentially bad things in common. Often they are
“hard,” which means they contain a lot of dissolved magnesium and calcium. This type of water will
accumulate salts (magnesium, calcium, et al) around the root zones (rhizosphere) altering the pH
drastically, and making the area inhospitable to some of the key microbeasties. It seems to me to
really mess with the mycorrhizal fungus, so things like phosphorus tend to lock out in the soil mix.
Another big downside is the seasonally changing ratios of various dissolved mineral salts, along with
who knows what else from local plumbing. Every once in a while, spring or well water will be
perfect for your style, growing all organically, because of low ratios of dissolved salts, and a nice
balance of them as well. City tap water has huge problems, including all those that spring and well
water have.

City/municipal water these days is almost always disinfected with a compound called
chloramine—which is, simply stated, a very stable form of chlorine that you cannot simply bubble
or even boil out of the water. This is hazardous to your soil mix in a huge way! Activated carbon
filtering is the way to deal with this issue, and carbon filtering will also remove many other potential
nasties from your city water, like fluoride. Fluoride interferes with over 30 natural plant processes,
and can definitely mess up germination rates. Reverse osmosis filters always have a carbon stage or
two to them as well, just so you know.